Anwar-Shabery debate: My two cents
I had just finished watching the live ‘fuel price hike’ debate between Anwar Ibrahim and Ahmad Shabery Cheek telecast live on TV9. Moderated by Johan Jaafar, the debate entitled ‘Form the government today, reduce fuel prices tomorrow’ was held at the Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka in Kuala Lumpur. There were two other panelists, Nordin Kardi and Zulkifli Sulong.
Here are the summaries I managed to write down. I may miss some of the pertinents points or understood completely different on the points being argued, so please correct me if I am wrong. The points are also listed not in any particular order.
Anwar’s main points and arguments:
- The fuel price hike can’t be avoided, but the hike was too steep causing much difficulty to the Malaysian people.
- The old fuel price need not be increased so steep, or the current price can be reduced, because the income from the global price hike can absorb the amount of subsidy given to the Malaysian people
- Said he will not respond to Shabery’s personal attacks but still retaliated on Shabery’s personal attack by saying Shabery was once a member of Semangat 46 political party
- The huge amount needed to keep the current subsidy to lower the fuel prices will not be taken from Petronas but will be taken from the sum given by Petronas to the Government by way of reducing corruptions, mismanagement of the government, and the leakages.
- Malaysia is net oil exporter so the high fuel price is not justified.
- Malaysia can’t be compared to country like Norway since Norwegians per capita income is much higher than Malaysians
- Anwar agreed that countries with low fuel price have much higher inflation rate but pointed out that Malaysia also going toward the high inflation. But the difference is other countries give low fuel price but Malaysia gives high fuel price to the people
- Anwar corrected Shabery’s statement that Malaysia will run out of oil by 2015 ONLY if there is no exploration efforts to add to the reserve
- Anwar pointed out that the BN Government misled the people by saying that the increase in fuel price will not affect prices of goods where as trends show that there is always an increase of prices of goods with the increase of fuel prices
- Anwar pointed out that while the IPP agreements were done during his tenure as Finance Minister, he and Ani Arop did not agree with the un-unfair IPP agreements, which was one of the reasons why Ani Arop resigned.
- Awar defended Petronas as good company but critises BN Government over mismanagement of Petronas fund used for bail out and political interferences into Petronas
- Anwar said Nordin should ask question istead of giving lectures. Anwar also corrected Nordin who said IPP not related to petroleum.
- Anwar said if the BN government willing to implement his ideas, he will support the government
Shabery’s main points and arguments:
- Defended the BN goverment’s move to increase fuel price by saying the amount of subsidy is too much to be born by the government
- Always compared Malaysia with other countries with high inflation but failed to highlight that these countries have much higher per capita income and the people at least benefit from low fuel prices
- Argued that the government reduce the subsidy to avoid rich people and companies benefit from the subsidy. Government would like to give this money directly to the people.
- Shabery said that while Tun Abdul Razak (one of the ex Prime Ministers) was building Petronas, Anwar was busy demonstrating in Baling, and yet failed to resolve Baling issues during his tenure in the BN Government
- Shabery did not answer Zulkifli’s question on why the BN government failed to fulfill its promise to improve transportations system during the previous fuel price hike. He was talking something completely irrelevant to the question
- Shabery asked back a question, where is Malaysia in the top 20 net oil exporter list? (Note: I am not sure what was the point of asking this question though.)
- Shabery argued Anwar should be lowering the fuel price based on the pre-election fuel price, not based on the newly increased price
- Shabery kept saying the money needed by Anwar to finance subsidy will be take from Petronas while Anwar insisted it will be taken from Government’s coffer i.e the royalty paid by Petronas
- Attacked Anwar on organizing street demos and inappropriate concert (referring to recent embarassing incident in a concert at Protes gathering in Kelana Jaya Stadium)
- Attacked Anwar for praising Mahathir during his tenure in the government during Mahathir era but yet Anwar blamed Mahathir on some of the issues. Also attacked Anwar on using IMF during economic crisis.
- Shabery said despite the high fuel prices, there is still money left for people to continue feeding themselves (masih cukup makan)
- High fuel price is not Malaysia’s problem only,but a global issue
- Shabery claimed Anwar’s arguments are populists in nature
Read also :
LIVE: Anwar vs Shabery in the Great Oil Price Debate by Anill Netto
KEPUTUSAN DEBAT : SHABERY MENANG SORAK, ANWAR MENANG FAKTA! Malaysiakini by Nur Aflah
Anwar Ibrahim vs Shabery Cheek by Rocky’s Bru
Live Debate! Anwar the Better Man! by Penang & Malaysia
My two cents?
Anwar managed to stay on the issues at hand most of the time and argued objectively. He knows his stuff and defended his every fact quite good despite limited time.
Shabery liked to beat around the bush and avoid discussing the issues objectively. At one time, Shabery completey did not answer a question by Zulkifli Sulong. Shabery also liked to raise personal attacks against Anwar, completely ignoring the issue at hand. This Information Minister has no idea why he was there.
Image credit: Malaysiakini
Kuala Lumpur/Sub, MALAYSIA
July 16th, 2008 at 1:49 am
I agree. I’ve read a few sites like Rocky’s Bru who said Shabery did not bad.
What crap. That Shabery guy is pathetic.
The topic: ‘Form the government today, reduce fuel prices tomorrow’
From a topic like this, Shabery is obviously in the opposition. Anwar has already proposed his solution. Shabery’s role should be to demonstrate the futility of Anwar’s proposal.
He did not answer the proposal at all. And he completely answered NOTHING when asked by Anwar’s panel.
If the debate is to be given marks like in an exam, Shabery surely failed.
I see Anwar at least trying his best to stick to the topic, exercise patience when being personally attacked.
July 16th, 2008 at 5:00 am
Anwar knows his facts. Shabery is not answering questions.
July 16th, 2008 at 7:23 am
Yeah Shaberry seems to go astray all the time… Anwar also have some astray moment especially went being attack on personel ground..
Anyway, it is just something political… Will the oil price come down ?? I dont think so… Will Anwar become a PM… I also doubt it..
Only if the Government could listen and follow Anwar suggestions….
July 16th, 2008 at 9:33 am
View the debate video here
http://zsfotovideo.blogspot.com/2008/07/debat-anwar-shabery.html
July 16th, 2008 at 11:42 am
Quite good summary sir. But u misses something which is how Anwar want to reduce RM.0.50 as a first step to lowering fuel hike. And how Anwar want find another 5 bilion in order to make it.
Anyway i agreed with u that Sabery is not good at all and he failed to convinced his peoples (BN) what the government policies on fuel hikes.
The consequence is?
1) Peoples still blurr on government..
2) Anwar raises his popularity (because he totally showed how professional he is compared his opponent)
3) I know where my vote goes in next election.
July 16th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
Right on……an hour is not enough, should be 2 hour debate lorr…It’s refreshing to see a live debate compared to one-sided comments of ministers and PM. Like they always right. ceshhh
July 16th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Thanks for the Government agreeing for the debate, now I know for sure which party should rule the country.
Organize more debates and send more GENIUS guys like Sabree who can’t answer questions- bravo BN.. Atleast this way the truth will prevail.
July 16th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Great summary of points and facts of the debate, CJCM.
Get a minister with an aligned mind to engage in debates next time. It’s sickening and insulting to the intelligence that an Information Minister (Propaganda Minister seems more befitting) can veer off-topic and avoid answering a clearcut question (on how government plans to tackle public transportation issues) so blatantly on live television.
Two hours is wishful thinking. The public is getting more than their money’s worth with an hour of debate. Judging from last night’s debate, UMNO will think twice before allowing another debate of such proportions. We may not get to witness another debate such as this again.
The remaining one cent of my two cents … http://www.mydeskblog.com/2008/oil-debate-anwar-ibrahim-1-vs-shabery-cheek-0/
July 16th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
My conclusion
1)
Anwar provide facts
Shabery provide fiction ( he just came back from Venuzuela )
2)
Anwar provide numbers
Shabery provides nothing but personnel attacks
( well few numbers but repeated again2 and again and again and again )
3)
Anwar is a good orator
Shabery is a “good” orator according to Pak Lah
4)
Anwar knows what he talking about
Shabery knows nothing ( not even answering the right question)
5) Summary
Now we know where the money goes
i) 1 Billion loss in suppose to be Singapore&M’sia bridge - bayar
ii) Brought Agusta from RM340m but sell back at RM1
iii) Cancel double track but decided to continue the project back again JB to Padang Besar 12billion
but now Ipoh to Padang Besar 14billion
and what happen to the money given by Petronas to BN close to 64billion ?????
July 16th, 2008 at 8:29 pm
pasai papi suruh shabery pi debat dgn anwar…
ini akan menampakkan lagi kesrlahan pemimpin bn yang cekap dgn fakta2 mereka…
July 16th, 2008 at 10:46 pm
VC yang bergelar Tan Sri telah memalukan diri sendiri di khalayak umum dan memalukan UUM……
July 16th, 2008 at 11:53 pm
A good summary from both points. And I agree with you that Anwar stuck more to the point of the debate, whereas Shabery tended to go of course most of the time. Anwar’s points were ‘backed up’ by numbers(we don’t know the truth in this) - but its hows credibility. Shabery did not even bother backing his points and did not justify the government’s stand well.
July 17th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
[...]debate between Anwar Ibrahimm and Shabery Cheek on fuel price increase, [...]
July 18th, 2008 at 6:48 am
any kind soul who have recorded this down? Can please upload the video to any free hosting sites or torrent sites pls
July 19th, 2008 at 10:07 am
You summary is OK.
It is a pity that many do not realize that the IPPs are making a lot of money at the expense of the Rakyat. Please read http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/7/18/business/21855859&sec=business
Petronas had being supplying processed gas to the IPPs at big discount.
I will write more about this at http://2cents.wordpress.com
July 21st, 2008 at 1:27 pm
Kalau ikut kesopanan Nordin Kadi:-
Seolah-olah Nordin Kadi seumpama seorang yang telah diluluskan oleh UMNO sebagai penal BN akan buat serangan peribadi seboleh-bolehnya kepada DSAI, untuk mendapatkan keseronokan di kalangan kawan-kawan dalam UMNO bahawa Nordin Kadi adalah *deleted* UMNO yang baik.
CJCM: This comment has been moderated.
July 26th, 2008 at 12:18 am
can u all give some comment more to financial? like future of Malaysia….GDP? ppl salary? something like that…
July 26th, 2008 at 12:21 am
after oil price increase gt something effects financial problem 2 citizen? how was gov income after oil price increase?
July 29th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
I saw in the debate that maybe DSAI would like to clear his name and debate an economist on IMF policy in another debate. He mentioned it a short time that would be a good debate, right? I hope he does.
So in your oppinion would oil prices go down if DSAI was PM? Would he be able to? Can he beat world oil prices?
August 2nd, 2008 at 2:28 am
[...] Read the summary of the debate here>>> [...]
August 4th, 2008 at 4:06 am
Anwar is a good orator. That’s a fact & we can see it here. He stresses his words sometimes one by one and makes the audience more alert on what he’s saying. He also stated figures & ‘facts’. How on earth would we know if the facts & figures he mentioned were true, unless we search & study them ourselves?
One thing in debates that I know: figures are very convincing, but they aren’t always true.
Good orators can convince people coz they play with words & the emotions of the audiences extremely well, like Anwar.
I agree with Shabery that when you’re on the opposition’s side, it’s easy to play with words.
Just be careful when you hear Anwar speaking. Don’t be fooled by his confidence & the words ‘ikhlas, bertanggungjawab’ & such that he used a lot in his speech.
I just don’t feel like he’s on the right side. Maybe I’m wrong, and only Allah knows. One day the truth will prevail, it might be the day we’re still on earth or maybe, the judgment day.
December 7th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
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